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Le 23 novembre 1940

Cet espace est consacré aux forces aériennes de toute nationalité et aux opérations aériennes durant la Seconde Guerre Mondiale
MODÉRATEUR: Marc_91

Nouveau message Post Numéro: 31  Nouveau message de Enrico Cernuschi  Nouveau message 27 Fév 2008, 13:59

Merci for the good intentions, but I was really going to be strongly ironic against some peculiar moods.

The main elements of my opionions are:

a) war is hell (Gen. Sherman, USA, 1864)

b) at war there are not the goods on one side and the evil on the other one. At best there are different mix on each side of the river.

c) To state, at the end of a war, "We were right and gfood, you were the bastards first and last" is an habit against common sense, good taste and history.

d) There are acts, at war, which may be considered correct and other not. To bomb the formes ally or siking and seizinf his ships without a declaration of war is against any rule and who is giulty for such an act may be hanged (it happened, after 1945, to the German general responsable for the killings at Chephalonia; this same fate was spared to Adm. Somerville; the legal and moral situation of both of them was the same: they obeyed at the orders of their politcal bosses. The only difference was one won and the other not, too few to justify anything).
To drop bombs on neutrals is a similar offence. Try to justify such an act saying: they were sorry, they paid for damages, they were monitorig those dirty Swiss ect. is not a justification, is only the confirmation we are in front of someone who is simply believing to have any right and the other ones, emeny or neutral, not. I can understand such a declarartion by a British (Do you remember what Gen. French sted in 1914 when someone told him the British Expeditionay Force was too much far from the first line? " The less the wops on each side the better for us". An Anglosaxon mentality can, by his traditional and historical culture, consider quietely human beings from the Continent (French, German, Italians, Spaniards, Russians ect.) a sort of disgusting second class people, but a French who is trying desperately to support such a point of view in the absurd hope to be considered someway "different" from his unobteinalble model of a gentlemen, not. He is only a toad.

e) The only compass at war is the defense of the national interest. The French who tried to defend their homes, food and trade from the German and Italian invasion were right. The French who did the same facing the British menace the same.
The only way to discriminate among them (and it's quite a difficoult exercise indeed) is to be able to establish who acted fairly and who not. But is history such an enterprise or it's politics? Personally I prefer history first and last.

Greetings

EC

PS I don't know the French words for trigger happy, but if you consider the whle history of air power since H.G. Wells novel The war in the air (1909) you will discover that the (absurd) dream of the bigger and bigger bombs able to win the wars alone without the sale besogne of infantry, fascinated always the Anglosaxon mentality. What strange? Today is not different.


 

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Nouveau message Post Numéro: 32  Nouveau message de Haddock  Nouveau message 27 Fév 2008, 14:45

at war there are not the goods on one side and the evil on the other one.


True ....but the beginner take a big responsability
In WWII i suppose you know who is beginner .

the legal and moral situation of both of them was the same: they obeyed at the orders of their politcal bosses. The only difference was one won and the other not


Fortunetly for a lot of persecuted people we won ....

An Anglosaxon mentality can, by his traditional and historical culture, consider quietely human beings from the Continent (French, German, Italians, Spaniards, Russians ect.) a sort of disgusting second class people, but a French who is trying desperately to support such a point of view in the absurd hope to be considered someway "different" from his unobteinalble model of a gentlemen, not. He is only a toad.


Not sure for me .... (See historical consideration between Belgians and UK)

The only compass at war is the defense of the national interest. The French who tried to defend their homes, food and trade from the German and Italian invasion were right. The French who did the same facing the British menace the same.


I can assure that Britrish menace "as you say" was minor compared to Nazi occupation ..
If i follow you Belgians Pilotes in RAF are considered as british soldiers ?? ask him to see .. :shock:


Do not forget we fight (in this time) against a Crime against humanity ..

I can assure that the belgian people is very happy from British assistance and to be in good side.

A victory of germany = Belgian a Nazi GAU :shock: no thks Mister Adolf .


To state, at the end of a war, "We were right and gfood, you were the bastards first and last" is an habit against common sense, good taste and history.


Ok Try to explain ..

Worker forced to work for german war effort ...
People in Concentration area ....
Feldgendrames in our street ..
Gestapo in our Houses ...
Tortures ...
No government ..
The king in a jail ..
and i forget a lot ...

If you can explain it's normal .. you are strong ..

Image

We fight to avoid this ...and to win all is authorized.


 

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Nouveau message Post Numéro: 33  Nouveau message de Audie Murphy  Nouveau message 27 Fév 2008, 17:35

Je devrai verrouiller ce fil car je crois qu'il est trop difficile de bien savoir où chacun veut en venir quand nous ne parlons pas la même langue.

Je ne crois pas qu'Enrico cherchait à justifier le nazisme en prétendant que la guerre est une saloperie et qu'il n'y a pas les bons d'un côté et les méchants de l'autre. Certains bombardements alliés n'avaient pas leur raison d'être d'après ce que je comprends de sa réponse et je suis totalement d'accord avec lui sur ce point. Mais certaines autres affirmations m'échappent et tant que je n'aurai pas reçu de traduction sûre, ce fil restera verrouillé.

Edit: À la relecture, je dois avouer que j'ai été complètement scié par certaines affirmations qui me semblaient totalement anglophobes. Enrico sera contacté en privé pour faire la lumière là-dessus. Mes excuses aux personnes qui auraient pu en être blessées, j'avais de la difficulté à traduire. :oops:
You'd better run for cover before I start to smile...

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