J'ai posé, sur un forum américain, la question suivante ( en anglais bien entendu ) :
Pensez vous que la France est un des vainqueurs de la seconde guerre mondiale et voici l'une des réponses ( ne lisez pas tout !! :lol: ):
1.French forces bombarded Gibraltar and shot at British in Dakar 1940( same time Britain was defending the only free land in Europe from the Nazis)
2.French Vichy forces shot at the first US troops landings in 1942 in Algeria and Morroco in North Africa. I believe the idea of French troops fighting Americans who have come to liberate Europe from the Nazi's is dumbfounding!
3.French Railway assisted the Nazis in transporting Jews to the gas chambers of the Third Reich
4.After the liberation De Gaulle's government held on to internees from many countries in officially closed centres to hide collaboration (Jon Henley, October 4, 2004, The Guardian )
4. France was the only defeated Allied country whose government actively assisted the NAZIs. After the French surrender. The Vichy authorities actively assisted the NAZIs track down and deport Jews
5. After the erruption of NAZI violence on Kristallnacht (November 1938), the British permitted 10,000 German, Austrian, and Czech Jewish children to seek saftey in their country. The French did not open their borders to the children. It is no clear just why.
6. The most shameful single act was Vichy assistance in rounding up over 80,000 foreign and French Jews as part of the Holocaust so they could be shipped to the death camps in Poland.
7.France was humiliated and the worst part was that did not want to face the truth. How Can you measure Love to your country and to your family?
In my opinion.
You can measure by the way you defend your country and your sacrifice. Paris was never defended. The so called uprising took place hours before American tanks entered the city.
For me it’s a real sign of cowardice
8. and maybe you try to read about the battles fought by the brave frenchmen from those units:
French Volunteer Grenadier Assualt Regiment
33.Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS "Charlemagen" (Franzisische Nr.1)
French soldiers in the IIWW
Posts: 129 | From: Warsaw | Registered: Mar 2005 | IP: Logged |
Member # 1354
posted 30 April, 2005 02:19 PM
all right guys here you have something to read about the real history of France during Second WW and please stop writing new history because here You won't succeed:
French VOLUNTEERS : (a total of about 45000 volunteer men in military uniform).
1. The LVF (= légion des volontaires français) = Französiches IR 638 (1941-1943).
6249 men engaged in this unit
It fought very well during the battle for Moscow (very high losses), then reconstituted and mainly issued to anti-partisans warfare.
2. La Phalange Africaine (1942- 1943).
= company Frankonia, 2nd Battalion, 754. PzG Rgt, 334. PzG Division, 5. Panzerarmee (von Arnim).
A company of 212 French European men.
Engaged the 14, 16, 17, 23 and 25th April 1943 in the Medjez-El-Bab area against British forces (78th infantry division). Only 64 survivors (issued to LVF after that), 1 officer, 3 NCO and 1 soldier became the eiserne Kreuz.
The commanding officer has been beheaded by a New Zealand soldier.
3. NSKK Motorgruppe Luftwaffe (= Nationalsocialistische Kraftfahrkorps).
A Luftwaffe logictics unit (drivers, engineers).
2500 French men integrated since 21st July 1942 to form the 4th NSKK regiment.
NSKK Rgt 4 is first affected to the eastern front (Luftgau Rostov/Don) and then in the Balkans.
In 1943 it becomes NSKK Transport Brigade der Luftwaffe and is affected to France (logistics on the V1 launching sites) and then in Italia.
Often integrated in Kampfgruppe against partisans.
Served also in Danmark, Hungary and finally Austria.
4. Legion Speer.
about 500 French men, drivers for the Arbeitsamt.
The 2nd Werkstattkompanie (logistics, reparation) is composed of 230 French men.
3000 NCOs and men
served on ships and in coastal batteries as normal "Matrose" and "Gefreiter".
Kriegsmarinewerftpolizei "La Pallice" in La Rochelle and Kriegsmarinewehrmänner.
about 200 French men protecting the naval installations in La Rochelle.
Possible same kind of units in Saint Nazaire and Bordeaux.
5.Waffen SS (officially 1943-1945 but before for individual engagements and Volksdeutsche volunteers (Alsace, Lorraine citizens), difficult to identify because they are not registered as French in the German archives.
About 15000 to 20000 French men (difficult to know because of the "Volksdeutsche")
In "non French" divisions:
- in the Wiking division
- in the LAH
- at least 50 men in the Wallonie Division
- in the Das Reich division
- few men in the Götz von Berlichingen Division
- few men in the 29. Waffen Grenadier Division der SS (Italians SS)
In "French" units :
- Bezen Perrot = Bretonische Waffenverband der SS (80 men, formed in 1943), engaged in Bretagne against resistants (they wanted an independent region and fought against all French symbols), a symbolical unit.
- . Französiche SS-Freiwilligen Sturmbrigade (90% losses in Galicia and in the Carpates, 108 eiserne Kreuze)
- . Waffen-Grenadier Division der SS "Charlemagne" (Pomerania, 80% losses, and Berlin battle)
Not a single unit but a series of succeeding French volunteer units that fought in the German Army and later the Waffen-SS. The first unit was the LVF, or "Legion des Volontaires Français," followed by "La Legion Tricolore", which existed for just 6 months in 1942. By late 1943, the remaining French volunteers were inducted into the Waffen-SS Französische SS-Freiwilligen-Grenadier-Regiment, later upgraded to the 8. Französiche SS-Freiwilligen Sturmbrigade. Though upgraded to divisional status in February 1945, this unit of French volunteers was rather understrength. They fought against the soviets from October 1944 to May 1945. 80% of the division had been destroyed in Pomerania, sacrificed in Körlin to allow other German units to retreat and they already had proven their Panzerknackers ability. The division had no single tank or armored car ... very few artillery (few medium mortars, two 150 mm howitzers and six 75 mm howitzers only), a handful of Pak38 and Pak40 and several 37 mm Flak guns. After Pomerania the unit is rebuilding in Neusterlitz and reaches about 1000 men. Due to the lack of trucks only about 400 men reached Berlin, and that just while Russians were closing the encirclement around them. The "Sturmbataillon" sent to Berlin was equipped at 80% with StG 44, often two MG42 per squad, many Panzerfäuste, Panzerschrecks and handgrenades. They were organized in 5 "companies" :
- Kampfschule (Weber)
- Company Michel
- Company Rostand
- Company Olliver
- Company Labourdette
They were among the very last defenders of Berlin with remnants of the Nordland division. These volunteers destroyed officially 62 Russian tanks with Panzerfäuste in 1 week. At least 20 eiserne Kreuze and 4 Ritterkreuze had been earned in Berlin.
Hauptstuf Fenet (RK)
Uscha Vaulot (destroyed 8 tanks) (RK)
Oscha Appolot (destroyed 6 tanks) (RK)
Ostuf Weber (destroyed 13 tanks) (RK)
Uscha Brunet (destroyed 4 tanks) (EK)
From the 400 men only 30 survived the battle. Several were executed by the Russians and later four by the French forces of general Leclerc.
The Todt organization.
about 2000 volunteers in the armed Schutzkommandos for the protection of the building sites. They also have been engaged in combat in Lettonia and Yugoslavia, probably against partisans.
The Technische Nothilfe (Teno).
One Pionnier Bataillon (provisory).
No unit designation, probably organized to repair the bridges across the Seine after allied bombings in 1944.
6. Hitlerjugend supervision in summer camps.
KLV = Kinderlandverschickung in the camps of Langenargen, Bad Reichenhall and on the Konstanz lake.
? men and women
7. Flak units (1943-1944).
Vichy forces but under the German command to help because of the lack of Flak protection and the increasing air attacks.
- 4850 men in listening posts and projectors units
- 2049 men in rail road and fixed Flak.
- 2 AA artillery groups (401 and 402) each with 6 batteries with 12 French 25mm AA gun each. The groups kept their French denominations. Battery 1/401 was in Argentan (Orne) and battery 2/401 was in Mézidon (Calvados).
8. Volontari Di Francia (1943 - 1944).
- In 1943 after the armistice signed between the allies and Badoglio, 150 French men with Italian origins (mainly from Paris) joined the RSI of Mussoloni
In March 1944 : the Longobardo Bataillon is formed with these 150 men. They receive the same formation and training as the San Marco units.
Integrated in the Decima Flottiglia MAS in July 1944.
Forms the 3rd company of the Fulmine bataillon (mainly anti-partisan warfare on the Yugoslavian border where many Tito's partisans are infiltrating).
19th January 1945 they fight against 2000 Tito's Partisans : 1 week battle, 86 KIA and 56 WIA ... but the infiltration is blocked thanks to reinforcements (several POW are decapitated by the partisans).
- Also 160 French men from the Nice area in the republican national guard (Blackshirts) = Guardia Nazionale Reppubblicana.
- 3 French men : Louis Marie Maurice Zeller, François Munoz and Alfred Gross used by the Abwehr since 1943. Under the command of Maurice Zeller a Frontaufklärungstrupp is organized against the French maquis/SAS in Saint Marcel (See Part II about the French SAS units).
They captured 1 officer + 2 NCO of the 2nd RCP. Then thanks to these uniforms they gathered information among the population and killed 7 other SAS (among them the commanding officer, Pierre Marienne) and 8 resistants. All 3 men have been executed on July 17, 1946.
- many special units depending from the Abwehr and later from the RSHA (Reichsicherheitshauptamt).
Albert Beugras aka "agent 30018" organized a spy network called "Atlas" in North Africa. Several of its members infiltrated the FFL forces that landed in Italia and Southern France.
Beugras directed also 6 sabotage schools during 1944 and 32 infiltration operations from Germany to France in late 1944. These infiltrations were conducted using allied captured planes (dakota, B17, B24). Classical airborne operations or using the PAG (Personen Abwerf Gerät), an airborne container with 3 men have been performed.
The captured allied planes were flown by KG200 and the "Olga" squadron.
95 men have been infiltrated but 86 were captured and 16 of them executed probably because a Free French spy was infiltrated in there !
In 1943, 180 French men formed the 8th company of the 3rd Regiment. Often Engaged in Southern France, imitating resistants (with captured radios) they captured many equipments/weapons deliveries and proceeded to many arrests.
This company has also been engaged against the resistance in the Vercors battle. They organized the glider attack usually said as being a Waffen-SS attack but the French witnesses have probably taken the "Brandenburg" arm patch for a SS marking.
German police units (about 10000 men in uniform + about 30000 civilian auxiliaries, not counted).
- Sicherheitspolizei = Sipo (? men).
- Sicherheitsdienst = Sipo-SD (? men).
- Selbstschutzpolizei = SSP : selfprotection police created during spring 1943 by Standartenführer SS Hermann Bickler (a French man from Alsace) in order to infiltrate the resistant organizations and to protect the collaborationist movements. About 5000 men.
- The "Jen d'Eclache" group : 30 armed men formed in 1943 and operationnal in the Dauphiné area and in Grenoble.
- The "mouvement anti-terroriste national" (in Lyon) : 150 men, formed in 1943 and attached to the Sipo-SD administration.
- In the city of Bordeaux, Friedrich Wilhelm Dohse managed to federate all the anti-communist movements against the resistance.
- the "Hauskapelle" (about 300 men formed by the French Brandenburg 8th Coy, created in 1944)
- Le Corps Franc Français (CFF) created in 1943, about 40 men
- La Phalange raciste, already existing end 1940.
+ not counted : the French Milicia from Darnand (Vichy government) but often used by the germans for military operations against the French resistants.
French North Africans.
They served in:
- Todt organization
- Brigade Nord Africaine (180 Muslims Algerians that were used as guards in the Peugeot factories of Socheaux). Originally founded by Mohamed Al Maadi, a very religious man hating jews, who met the great Mufti of Jerusalem in Berlin. They executed at least 50 French workers and are responsible for many rapes and plunderings. Almost destroyed during combats against partisans.
- Deutsche-Arabische Legion (January 1943) that became Deutsche Arabische Lehrverband and later 845. Bataillon der Wehrmacht (commander = Oberleutnant Meyer-Ricks). They served in Caucasus and against Tito's partisans.
- Sonderverband 287 (in Greece and Ukrainia) and 288 (In Tunisia), depending from the Abwehr and later integrated in the Wehrmacht as Panzergrenadier Regiment (mot.) "Afrika" (commander = Oberst Menton), in the 90. Leicht Division.
En gros, pour eux ,la France était une vassale du Reich, nos grands parents, tous des collaborationnistes... Ceci n'est qu'une réponse parmis d'autre... Marre de voir que de l'autre côté de l'atlantique, nous passons pour des couards, des traitres, etc... Quelle vision sectaire de l'histoire !